The New York Times > Washington > Campaign 2004 > Full Transcript of the Debate Between the Vice Presidential Candidates in Cleveland

The link to the debate from last night.

Here are few choice excerpts from the VP debate with some commentary by me:

In line with Noam Chomsky's assertion that the US is the largest terrorist state around:

Cheney:"And we also then, finally, had to stand up democracies in their stead afterwards because that was the only way to guarantee that these states would not again become safe harbors for terror or for the development of deadly weapons."

Well, the US is ostensibly a democracy and it doesn't stop us. WMD r us.

Cheney states why they went in to Iraq. Hussein supported terrorism. Edwards highlights how badly things are going there. Very badly. Vietnam-badly.

I wonder if a Bush/Cheney admin would find a way to abandon Iraq the way they abandoned Afghanistan? Focus on N. Korea maybe? That is their record.

Edwards:"Our point in this is not complicated. We were attacked by Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. We went into Afghanistan. And very quickly the administration made a decision to divert attention from that and instead began to plan for the invasion of Iraq."

There's a good cover article in a recent Atlantic about this diversion. I'm not a big proponent of the war against the Taliban but that diversion seemed worse. If you're going to bomb a country at least go after the guy you're looking for. Isn't he on dialysis? How fast can he move? Is he like Rasputin or something?

More reasons to like Kerry:

Cheney:"That’s part of a track record that goes back to the 1970’s when he[Kerry] ran for Congress the first time and said troops should not be deployed without U.N. approval. Then in the mid-80’s he ran on the basis of cutting most of our major defense programs. In 1991, he voted against Desert Storm."

Good stuff!

Edwards:"Here’s what’s actually happened in Afghanistan regardless of this rosy scenario that they paint on Afghanistan just like they do Iraq. What’s actually happened is they’re now providing 75 percent of the world’s opium. Not only are they providing 75 percent of the world’s opium. Large parts of the country are under the control of drug lords and warlords. Big parts of the country are still insecure. And the reality is the part of Afghanistan, eastern Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden is is one of the hardest places to control and the most insecure."

in response to Edwards' comments about Iraq:

"Mr. Cheney: Well, Gwen, the 90 percent figure is just dead wrong. When you include the Iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties, as well as the allies, they’ve taken almost 50 percent of the casualties in operations in Iraq, which leaves the U.S. with 50 percent, not 90 percent.

With respect to the cost, it wasn’t $200 billion. You probably weren’t there to vote for that, but the $120 billion is in fact what has been allocated to Iraq. The rest of it’s for Afghanistan and the global war on terror."

Well I feel so much better now. Only 50% and $120 billion. What a relief.

Cheney on Kerry:"In 1984, when he ran for the Senate he opposed or called for the elimination of a great many major weapon systems that were crucial to winning the cold war and are important today to our overall forces."

It's too bad we didn't scale back then. We might not have so many enemies today.

It seems to me, on a side note, that Cheney is supposed to appeal to the smart Repubs and Bush to the dumb ones. Kindof the opposite of the Bush/Quayle ticket. I guess. It worked 4 yrs ago with a little help. Cheney has no charisma or personality but appeals to the pragmatic who are on the side of jingoism, aggression, and post-colonialist terrorism. That's quite a coalition. Edwards and Kerrey seem to have that Kennedy/Clinton aura that appeals to liberals and hopefully many moderates who don't trust the Rep. And hopefully many third-party folks will do vote-pairing.

"Ms. Ifill Mr. Vice President, the Census Bureau ranks Cleveland as the biggest poor city in the country: 31-percent jobless rate. You two gentlemen are pretty well off. You did well for yourselves in the private sector. What can you tell the people of Cleveland or people of cities like Cleveland that your administration will do to better their lives?"

I like her.

"Mr. Cheney Well, Gwen, there are several things that I think need to be done and are being done. We’ve of course been through a difficult recession and then the aftermath of 9/11 where we lost over a million jobs after that attack."

Is he implying that it's the terrorist's fault we have a recession? Job loss? Talk about diversion.

I don't like or agree with everything Edwards says or disagree with Cheney's spin on everything, but it's pretty clear here who is the radical conservative favoring US hegemony and who is the left of center moderate/liberal will to work with others for American interests. And one change would be the President would actually be the President and not some evil old beltway hack.

I have to say that Edwards is a little Bush like in his repetition of certain points. I didn't see the debate but I doubt if he blinked as much.

"Mr. Cheney Well, I must say its one of the disappointments of the last four years is that weve not been able to do what the president did in Texas for example when he was able to reach across the aisle and bring Democrats along on major issues of the day."

No the rest of us do not live in Texas.

Well, I read the whole thing, skimming the repetitions at the end. There's definiteley a choice here, although for the ultra-left it may not be a fun one. I suppose the debate was more fun to watch then read, but substance is often less exciting. Friday should be interesting. Don't blink!